Red Star

[Adam]

Lyrics

The police high beam froze her pretty smile
In white glow for a while
The politic bureau's on high alert
And her name showed up on file
There's trouble with the war effort
And she's been speaking out
Checkpoint Charlie's radioing in
She's compromised in doubt
There's trouble with the war effort and she's crossed the party line
You were so pretty the days you spoke your mind

You were so pretty hiding out

The files have been filled
The regime won't be undermined
You were so pretty in the days you spoke your mind
Quiet now don't make a sound
The system shut us down now we find each other in the underground
She had the voice once of the people
Now she's timid as a mouse
I would kiss you on the mouth in a safe house

Cause you were so pretty hiding out
So walk on by you're a red star

Tell me how did you let them in
We were silent secret agents
But the resistance is wearing thin
Dissent is now illegal
She must pay the consequence
In this thriller mystery baby
You are my suspense

Cause you were so pretty hiding out
You're a red star

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Written by: Stephan Jenkins & Arion Salazar

[Nick.WTST]

I just listened to Red Star 5 mins ago..here's my take

At the east side beach saw a pretty face
And wondered for awhile
The pilot goes on high alert
And her name showed up on file
There's trouble with the boyfriend (bullet?) but she's with me going out
Checkpoint Charlie's radio in
And shes compromised the doubt
There's trouble with (bully bunch?)(bullet?) but she goes across the party line

You were so pretty, the days you spoke your mind
We've come so far to back down now
We've come so far, don't back down now
But the banner said ..............
(So farrr) so pretty the days you spoke your mind.

Quiet now, don't make a sound
System shut us down now
We'll find each other in the underground
? the boys __the people __
She's timid as a mouse
I will kiss you on the mouth and say love
And you've come so far to back down now
You've come so far don't back down now
Just walk on by
Don't back down now
You've come so far don't back down now
You're a red star
You're a red star

Tell me how, did they let you be?
See the silent secret agents but the resistance is wearing thin
Sentence now illegal and she has paid her consequence
In this screwed up mystery baby, you are my suspense
And you've come so far to back down now
You've come so far don't back down now
Just walk on by
Don't back down now
You're a red star
You're a red star

---------------------------------------------------------------------

My changes are underlined...things I'm not too sure about are in italics

[Adam]

Changes made, if anyone wants to argue I'll change it again.

[BigRed]

not arguing but, she's been speaking out

and she's timid as a mouse

the days you spoke your mind

[Nick.WTST]

not arguing but, she's been speaking out

and she's timid as a mouse

the days you spoke your mind

I agree

[slowmotion7]

Lyrics

At the east side beach saw a pretty face
And wondered for awhile
The pilot goes on high alert
And her name showed up on file ...
There's trouble with the bording but she's with me going out
Checkpoint Charlie's radio in
And shes compromised the doubt
There's trouble with bording but she goes across the party line

You were so pretty, the days you spoke your mind
We've come so far to back down now
We've come so far, don't back down now
But the virus set in good
and she's holding on to life
(So farrr) so pretty the days you spoke your mind.

Quiet now, don't make a sound
System shut us down now
We'll find each other in the underground
The boy's will tell the people that or the voice was of the people but
She's timid as a mouse
I will kiss you on the mouth and say love
And you've come so far to back down now
You've come so far don't back down now
Just walk on by
Don't back down now
You've come so far don't back down now
You're a red star
You're a red star

Tell me how do they let you in
See the silent secret agents but the resistance is wearing thin
Sentence now illegal and she has paid her consequence
In this screwed up mystery baby, you are my suspense
And you've come so far to back down now
You've come so far don't back down now
Just walk on by
Don't back down now
You're a red star
You're a red star

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Written by: Stephan Jenkins & ?
I think this is close. not so sure on the virus part in the first chorus.

[a sort of blinded]

Just listened to this again, and after hearing these lines repeated:

"Don't back down now
You've come so far don't back down now"

as much as they are in the song, does anyone else suspect this may be an evolution of "Courageous." If I'm wrong or if it's already been discussed, my apologies, just seems like courage is a repetitive theme here, trying to make a connection.

[Nick.WTST]

I think Thomas perfected it.

[Brian]

does anyone else suspect this may be an evolution of "Courageous."
No.

[XHendrix24]

Just wanted to state how fucking awesome of a song this is.

Damnit, it's good.

[LikeaBurningMan]

I agree.
I think this is far and away a clear example of the evolution of 3ebs sound more than any of the other new songs.
The melody just sounds so fresh.

my two cents, i know most will disagree.

[ordinaryday6]

i agree, about the evolution thing. but i also think that this would have fit on self-titled, as well. if that makes any sense.

and just for a note in the official thread, this song is completely done. (straight from SJ)

[ordinaryday6]

every once in a while, i listen to some of the new songs. i don't do it often, because 1. i don't want to get too used to listening to them, so when i do listen to them, i still get chills and such.. and 2. so i don't know them very well when the album comes out. but i'm listening to red star.. this song is so fucking badass and beautiful. :)

[Jamie]

every once in a while, i listen to some of the new songs. i don't do it often, because 1. i don't want to get too used to listening to them, so when i do listen to them, i still get chills and such.. and 2. so i don't know them very well when the album comes out. but i'm listening to red star.. this song is so fucking badass and beautiful. :)

I feel exactly the same way. I started to listen to a couple of the boots and turned them off before listening to all of them once through because I am saving it up for the album. And boy, isn't it hard??

[Colin Black]

where could i dl a copy of red star? jacob vandy missed it.

[SkimMlk]

He most certainly did not. ;)

http://www.3ebarchive.com/100405.html
At the end of the list.

[Colin Black]

hmmm. not sure what to think of this one

[ordinaryday6]

um.. exactly. the song is absolutely gorgeous.

[Wide-eyed & blind]

First off, I love this song. It's pure golddd.

But why I really posted. I've gotten so used to this boot, I don't know where it's from but it's 4:09 in length. At 3:24 and 3:28, there are two "reeer"s that sound like they might be of human origin, not part of the song. I'm really expecting them to be there when I listen to it on the 4th album. Does anyone else know what I'm talking about so I don't look like a complete dumbshit? :uhoh:

[ordinaryday6]

there's only one boot of red star right? well.. i don't hear anything at those times...

[Matthew]

here's the lyrics off the t-shirt that simon transcribed in the show review thread. now, i've just listened to the starland boot of 'red star' a couple of times, and i'll be damned! the lyrics haven't changed hardly at all! we just misheard them like crazy! listen closely and you'll pick up on most of these. this song really is much more "political" than we had originally thought. i guess "political" isn't the right word, but i think you can catch my meaning...

edit #1: i bolded the parts that appear to be different from the starland boot...not all that much, to my surprise!

edit #2: i'm wondering if "cause you were so pretty hiding out" is a chorus replacement for "you've come so far to back down now." the way its placed on the t-shirt makes me think it could be...

SO PRETTY

The police high beam froze her pretty smile
In white glow for a while
The politic bureau's on high alert
And her name showed up on file
There's trouble with the war effort
And she's been speaking out
Checkpoint Charlie's radioing in
She's compromised in doubt
There's trouble with the war effort and she's crossed the party line
You were so pretty the days you spoke your mind

You were so pretty hiding out

The files have been filled
The regime won't be undermined
You were so pretty in the days you spoke your mind
Quiet now don't make a sound
The system shut us down now we find each other in the underground
She had the voice once of the people
Now she's timid as a mouse
I would kiss you on the mouth in a safe house

Cause you were so pretty hiding out
So walk on by you're a red star

Tell me how did you let them in
We were silent secret agents
But the resistance is wearing thin
Dissent is now illegal
She must pay the consequence
In this thriller mystery baby
You are my suspense

Cause you were so pretty hiding out
You're a red star

[Brian]

If We've come so far to back down now has truly become Cause you were so pretty hiding out we've witnessed yet another colossal SJ blunder.

[Brian]

As per my limited understanding of the situation, I believe that is what has happened. I'll give it the benefit of the doubt until I hear it though.
Someone needs to save that man from himself.

[SkimMlk]

^ That could be a good lyric.

[GorgeousButterfly]

He most certainly did not. ;)

http://www.3ebarchive.com/100405.html
At the end of the list.

thank U thank U thank U thank U thank U a million times thank U for posting the link.

after checking jacob's and adam's audio areas I figured the only place it could be was buried in one of the concert areas (btw, a million thank U's to jacob and adam, too) and with my slow dial up it might take me days to actually find it.

sounds good...can't wait for boots (and thanx to all who have [in the past] and will supply 'em).

you know what would rock is soundboard boots. but that's just me daydreaming!!

[Brian]

^ That could be a good lyric.

©

[brenan]

©

:lol: :lol:

[Matthew]

If We've come so far to back down now has truly become Cause you were so pretty hiding out we've witnessed yet another colossal SJ blunder.

i find myself agreeing. i'll wait until i hear a bootlegged version or the studio version for a final verdict, but i just can't hear it harmonizing nearly as well as the original chorus. not to mention i feel like the original chorus was a much more grand statement than the above. kinduva shame...

[Brad]

perhaps he draws out the "so" in this line and harmonizes on that word...

[Brian]

i find myself agreeing. i'll wait until i hear a bootlegged version or the studio version for a final verdict, but i just can't hear it harmonizing nearly as well as the original chorus. not to mention i feel like the original chorus was a much more grand statement than the above. kinduva shame...
Exactly. It added more to the lyrical content of the song....this new bit is just repetitive, "let's mention So Pretty again since we're gonna call the song that." On top of that fact that I can't imagine it flows or harmonizes nearly as well.

:deadpan:

[Yusuf]

"We've come so far to back down now" was absolutely my favorite part of the song. If that's really gone, then I'm truly disappointed.

[elle]

"We've come so far to back down now" was absolutely my favorite part of the song. If that's really gone, then I'm truly disappointed.

Yeah, it's gone. I'm sad too.

[Matthew]

i'm still trying to figure out what sj was thinking when he changed the chorus. the verses haven't changed but more than a few words since october, 2005. why the sudden need to fuck with such an amazing song? :(

[Rick_3eb]

Wow. That song is not what it was. :no:

That is all I can say at this moment after listening to the new recording of it.

[sst2]

Maybe it was the dedication to Arion, but this "hiding out" version reminds me of the "Hiding Out" DVD. Like, remember when Kevin said that 1000 Julys, despite being about sex, had a lot to do with the tension between him and SJ? Could this have been something where it meant more to Stephan to say "You were so pretty hiding out", and he's singing those lines to AS?

I just woke up, I'm not sure if I'm coherent.

[Rick_3eb]

I'd rather have him singing "You've come so far" and then tell Arion not to back down now.

But you could be right.

[sst2]

Yeah, me too. Also there's that line - you were so pretty the days you spoke your mind... idk. i miss arion. :cry:

[Brian]

Could this have been something where it meant more to Stephan to say "You were so pretty hiding out", and he's singing those lines to AS?

I highly doubt it, though...as always, anything is possible.

[Rick_3eb]

Me too--it's weird to think the last time I saw them at Ram's Head I purposely stood on Arion's side because he was the best to watch on stage. Not that I don't love Tony on stage (I do!), it's just weird when I go through the doors at a show that I choose to be on the opposite side of where Arion should be. :no:

[sst2]

Speaking of Tony onstage, he was incredibly hot at the Fillmore shows. :yes:


Oh, and the #1 reason they should change this song back to "Red Star" is that I can no longer say "Oh! That's so pretty!" or "Your dress is so pretty, Laura!" without feeling like I'm quoting a 3eb song. It's unnatural.

[FarFromReal]

Valarie Plame? maybe? doubt it... would be interesting though

[tonyrox]

Valarie Plame? maybe? doubt it... would be interesting though

Holy shit. I was just coming in to post that. I think, without a doubt, it's at the very least, loosely inspired by her.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Plame

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair

[FarFromReal]

That is kinda what I was thinking, that he might have used it as a general idea for a song... seems you and I are the only ones who think so though

[tonyrox]

That is kinda what I was thinking, that he might have used it as a general idea for a song... seems you and I are the only ones who think so though

Nah, I bet lots of people would agree, just no one fucking comes in here. :D

The song is ripe with countless lines that lend themselves to our theory:

You were so pretty, hiding out & We were silent secret agents
You were an undercover CIA operative
The papers have been filled, the regime won't be undermined
Your identity was purposely leaked from orders high up as direct retribution for you (or you husband) trying to "undermine" the Bush administration
You were so pretty the day you spoke your mind & There's trouble with the war effort, and she's been speaking out
Obviously this is where SJ takes a small artistic liberties, because it was Plume's husband that spoke his mind and criticized the war in Iraq, but it fits the context of the song way better to just forget about that and say it was her
Dissent is now illegal
Saying negative things about the administration is now intolerable

I think that's most of the direct references. SJ fills it in nicely with some made up stuff and a few generic love story elements, but I think at the core it's undeniably about the Plume affair. Probably one of SJ's coolest songs lyrically, because there's this whole other hidden layer to them. Plus, who the fuck else is going to ever write a song about this?

[punchbag906]

Yea there is some good points there, this is an interesting topic and now that I know what the song is mostly about..what a great song.

[3eBrad]

that info is very interesting...i hadn't put the song and that story together.

i do have to admit even though i liked Red Star better, So Pretty is very catchy and after hearing it I can't seem to get it out of my head for hours...

[tonyrox]

Yea there is some good points there, this is an interesting topic and now that I know what the song is mostly about..what a great song.

Yeah, despite most people's immediate attraction to Red Star, I never got to into it too much. I thought it was good, and I liked the harmonies, but I wasn't a massive fan. Reading into the lyrics though has really given me a much greater appreciation for it.

[FarFromReal]

I agree... the lyrics really make the song for me

I know its a minority opinion, but I like the "hiding out" addition to the song. I think it provides a break up to the song that was needed. I would like to see that as well as the "we've come so far to backdown now..." part. I wish they could both be in there.

Oh! and I forgot to mention in the last post, the Wikipedia links helped... thanks tonyrox

[kfowler1]

At the beginning of the song, SJ ISN'T slurring "political bureau." Instead, he's saying "Politburo," the term for the major political body in China and (formerly) the Soviet Union. As you'll notice, the red star reference is to compare the totalitarian tendencies of communism to today's America (yes -- le'affaire de Plame), so it would make sense that he is using a communist term.

[gduarte77]

I know its a minority opinion, but I like the "hiding out" addition to the song. I think it provides a break up to the song that was needed. I would like to see that as well as the "we've come so far to backdown now..." part. I wish they could both be in there.



i agree with you...i have to say i like the hiding out addition a little better too...i understand the earlier lyric was more powerful, but the "hiding out" version works just a bit better musically...maybe its because they've probably been rehearsing it a lot with the new lyric, but it just sounds more natural then the earlier version. imo of course.

[kenneth r.]

I love this song, and all its political undertones, it'd be perfection if it still had the 'come so far' section in there somewhere...

[BigDan]

ugh, I actually can't decide which version I like better. By the way, after all this brainstorming and wikipedia-ing I asked my dad what he thought of when he heard Checkpoint Charlie and Red Star, he gave me an 'are you stupid look' and answered communism and stuff about the the Soviet Union. I found it funny

[Masachi]

Heh, I must admit when I listened to the boot of Red Star I didn't really catch any of the lyrics besides the chorus, but still associated "Red Star" with communism.

[ordinaryday6]

okay, so i listened to so pretty (from the fillmore) for like, the second or third time.. i still really like the song.. the lyrics are amazing. but when i had it stuck in my head at work, i couldn't stop singing the "we've come so far to back down now" part with it. i'm sorry.. the song does not feel finished to me, without it. i keep thinking they're going into that part, and it just doesn't make it there.. they just don't land it. the song is beautiful, but i feel that it's a little anti-climactic.

[NCdude2k3]

I take back what I said about them screwing up this song. I still really like it. Really cool interesting lyrics + cool guitar work. Wish the solo were longer though. All in all, a really good song.

[missysj276]

a lot of people have been saying how "we've come so far to back down now" should have stayed, and i agree.
however, i remember the earlier versions of blinded being "and i swear some day i'll stare that fucker down" but as we all know it was changed to "there's nothing left to do, still I see you". i personally thought the original version was way better and was bummed when it got switched...but the song is still awesome, so...who knows.

[nj89]

I came across something today that was quite interesting. I assumed the "red star" was just the symbol of the USSR that Stephan had appropriated, what with Monotov etc but I was reading The Picture of Dorian Gray, by Oscar Wilde today and came across this,

"There had been a madness of murder in the air. Some red star had come too close to the earth".

This is at the part where Dorian has just murdered one of his closest friends. Surely Steve-o must have read this book.

I should probably mention I haven't listened to the song, but I thought it was worth bringing up. Anyone got any ideas on this?

[lighter_boots]

Very good find and very likely.

Popular work? "A picture of grey, Dorian Gray" - The Ocean - U2

[Masachi]

I guess it should be noted here that in another thread Tony asked for some of the lyrics from boots because Stephan lost track of some things - in it he mentioned that he too liked the hook of "So far to back down now", and will do his best to re-include it.

[kenneth r.]

I came across something today that was quite interesting. I assumed the "red star" was just the symbol of the USSR that Stephan had appropriated, what with Monotov etc but I was reading The Picture of Dorian Gray, by Oscar Wilde today and came across this,

"There had been a madness of murder in the air. Some red star had come too close to the earth".

This is at the part where Dorian has just murdered one of his closest friends. Surely Steve-o must have read this book.

I should probably mention I haven't listened to the song, but I thought it was worth bringing up. Anyone got any ideas on this?

Excellent job. Great book too

[Jamie]

I guess it should be noted here that in another thread Tony asked for some of the lyrics from boots because Stephan lost track of some things - in it he mentioned that he too liked the hook of "So far to back down now", and will do his best to re-include it.

How do you know this?

[Brad]

How do you know this?

Tony said it...

[Jamie]

Tony said it...

He said that he was trying to decide between the choruses but hadn't decided. This post makes it seem like SJ will do his best to put it back in, which would be fantastic news! Just trying to see if I should get excited or not :)

[Rick_3eb]

How do you know this?


Cuz youve come so Far
To back down now
So Far
To back down now
Just walk on by
Dont back down now
Walk on by
Your a Red Star


Thats a chorus that raises the song up. He cant decide weather he wants to use the chorus- you were so pretty- hiding out---or the Red Star chorus.. Its not that tough... Combine.. the best of both worlds- not one or the other.

T

...I don't get the confusion about what Masachi said?

[Jamie]

He said SJ can't decide and what Maschi said was is that he was trying to reinclude the chorus, not choose between them, which would be awesome news, best of both worlds like Tony had hoped for but not confirmed.

[Masachi]

Sorry for the confusion - my meaning was that Tony seemed like he would be doing his best tio include it - "Its not that tough... Combine.. the best of both worlds- not one or the other." I didn't mean to say that Stephan was going to try his best to include it, I mean if Stephan has the inclination to change a lyric, it's done. It might be changed again later, but he's the lyric guy.

[punchbag906]

this song is just fuckin incredible, killer verses, killer chorus and maybe when it's all finished the old chorus will be back, either way this is gonna be one of my favorite 3eb tunes, it's definently different than any other 3eb song, im just obsessed with it. it is perfect.

[3eb_ate_my_hands]

I've tried, lord knows I've tried. But I just don't like the "So Pretty" reincarnation at all. Taking the little guitar riff from the amazing "Red Star" chorus and making that the main chorus melody doesn't work for me at all. :cry:

[should_be_working]

I've listened to both versions, though not too extensively for fear of burn out, but I actually like the newer "So Pretty" version. I think those that like the old "Red Star" version simply prefer it over the new one because they heard it first and fell in love with it. I don't know, from the boots of the old version the chorus sounds a bit rough and unorganized to me, whereas the new version sounds much clearer/cleaner and powerful. Plus I actually like the title "So Pretty" as opposed to "Red Star". Thats just my opinion though, as I'm sure you will all mostly disagree with me. Either way, I think this song is going to be great, and very unique yet mesh well with the rest of the songs on the fourth.

[Brian]

I think those that like the old "Red Star" version simply prefer it over the new one because they heard it first and fell in love with it.
Incorrect.

[3eBrad]

I loved almost everything about Red Star, but as I stopped listening to it and heard So Pretty live a couple times and listened to the boot, it grew on me. I wish SJ would mesh the obvious parts of Red Star that we all love with So Pretty for a killer combo, but we'll have to wait and see.

I think if we hadn't heard Red Star first everyone would appreciate So Pretty for what its worth. It's still a really great and different song.

Just bring back "YOU'VE COME SO FAR, TO BACK DOWN NOW!!"

[should_be_working]

Incorrect.

care to elaborate?

[PUTthePASTaway]

I think those that like the old "Red Star" version simply prefer it over the new one because they heard it first and fell in love with it.

It's an interesting idea, and one that I think about all the time with many songs. However, there's no way to know whether or not that's the case. We can claim one version is simply better, but unless you got amnesia and heard the newer version first, there's absolutely no way to know. But I do think hearing something first makes you like it more...to what extent, I'm not sure.

[Raftysworld]

I think those that like the old "Red Star" version simply prefer it over the new one because they heard it first and fell in love with it.

That's quite a blanket statement. No, I'm not one to dwell on changes in songs and whine and proclaim the end of the band like many of the sensationalists in this forum. But Red Star was a better song, in my and many other opinions. The chorus was powerful, memorable, and actually gave me goosebumps.

I don't think the song is bad right now by any means, but it's weak and won't be near to the top of my favorites from the album unless something incredible happens in the studio.

[ordinaryday6]

honestly, in my opinion, they are completely different songs. red star is a rocker. so pretty is a ballad. so pretty just doesn't have the "umph" that red star does. maybe, if i had never heard red star and just heard so pretty, i would like it for what it is, but i believe that even if i had heard so pretty and then red star, i would still prefer red star.

[Brian]

honestly, in my opinion, they are completely different songs. red star is a rocker. so pretty is a ballad. so pretty just doesn't have the "umph" that red star does. maybe, if i had never heard red star and just heard so pretty, i would like it for what it is, but i believe that even if i had heard so pretty and then red star, i would still prefer red star.
Exactly.

[ZZPriestess]

I would just like to say that I am absolutely, ridiculously, phenomenally in love with this song.

I'm with you Simon--this may be in my top 5.

To my knowledge I've never heard the original Red Star. It's my hands-down favorite out of the new songs at this point. I don't understand how this song could ever be considered weak. Maybe if I had heard Red Star first and already loved it, I'd be disappointed with this song, but as it is now, I love it.

The verse from "Quiet now don't make a sound" through "I would kiss you on the mouth in a safe house" makes me want to die. In a good way.

[PUTthePASTaway]

I would just like to say that I am absolutely, ridiculously, phenomenally in love with this song.

I'm with you Simon--this may be in my top 5.

To my knowledge I've never heard the original Red Star. It's my hands-down favorite out of the new songs at this point. I don't understand how this song could ever be considered weak. Maybe if I had heard Red Star first and already loved it, I'd be disappointed with this song, but as it is now, I love it.

The verse from "Quiet now don't make a sound" through "I would kiss you on the mouth in a safe house" makes me want to die. In a good way.

This is actually awesome to hear. Don't listen to an old Red Star boot until you become very used to this one. Then give Red Star a listen and let us know what you think. I have a feeling you might prefer So Pretty even though the majority of us like Red Star more.

[Wide-eyed & blind]

Well, So Pretty is a much higher quality boot than Red Star, which I think does make a difference.

Long live Red Star, baby. :wank: :wooby:

[ZZPriestess]

Just listened to Red Star for the first time. Actually 3 times.

a. First thing I noticed is it's slower tempo than So Pretty, like more emphasis on the lyrics.

b. Second thing I notice is I can turn it up louder than I can turn up So Pretty. Yes!

c. GOD I LOVE 'SYSTEM SHUT US DOWN NOW WE FIND EACH OTHER IN THE UNDERGROUND.'

d. I don't think the first singing of "You've come so far to back down now" adds anything to the song, it kind of breaks it up for me. After listening solely to "So Pretty," that part honestly does interrupt the flow of the song for me.

e. However, I do love the intense final singing and harmony of "You've come so far to back down now." If I could modify "So Pretty" in any way, the only thing I would do would be insert that line, intensely with Tony's amazing high harmony, at the end of the song in that exact same place, but leave the previous singings of it out. I do see why, Brian, you said that Stephan/co. made a colossal blunder in leaving that line out, because it is an amazing line for the song's message, but I think it would be best placed at the end for maximum emphasis/rock-out-age.

f. I prefer the way Stephan slings out "You're a Red Star" quickly after "...hiding out" in So Pretty as opposed to the more emphasized "You're a red star" in Red Star. Kind of reminds me of how in the way early original Friend Coming Over Stephan sings/shouts/rocks out "When I see you--when I see you" kind of quickly, and we were disappointed when he changed it to a more precisely sung, more emphasized "When I SEE YOU" in consequent versions.

Final verdict: I prefer "So Pretty." Tony's harmonies in the Red Star boot are so strong--I hope they stick with those. I agree that they should bring back "You're come so far to back down now" but not to the extent that it interrupts the flow of the song.


Final thought: I'm so happy this band went in this direction with these new songs. Although there are still some OOTV-feel new songs--"Break Me" might be one--and even Break Me has that kick-ass rap in the middle of it (I hope they keep that!)--the best of these new songs (A Sharp Knife, Red Star) recall the best of S/T and Blue.

[Masachi]

I might have said it before, but the bass line directly before "Quiet now, don't make a sound" and the drums that kick in during/after it are pure awesome, although more difficult to hear in the So Pretty boot.

[PhilEYoung]

Plus, who the fuck else is going to ever write a song about this?

apparently this guy did... "During Decemberists frontman Colin Meloy's spring 2008 tour, he debuted a song about Plame, appropriately titled "Valerie Plame."[9]"

from the wikipedia link about valerie plame...

[mike]

the fact that the DBAW chorus now has "don't believe a word/just walk on by" gives the impression that Red Star chorus may have returned to having "You've come so far don't back down now/You're a red star"

it doesn't make sense that they would have the new DBAW chorus with "just walk on by", and so pretty with "so walk on by, you're a red star"

just a thought i had since hearing the new DBAW, has anybody heard anything about red star recently? Tony has said that he prefers the "you've come so far don't back down now" chorus, has Stephan decided to change them back and make yet another good decision about a song? (break me chorus being the other one) :eek:

[nj89]

I think what Tony said is that the last verse should be the red star one (you've come so far, don't back down now) but the first segway and chorus should be the so pretty one - whether or not that's happening I don't know. I tend to think SJ is just going to use so pretty, which IMHO fits the melody better but I do love the explosion of the second verse of red star in the boots we've heard. I'm not sure if it would work though.

Personally I'd love to see a red star vocal intro into so pretty; that would be badass

[3eBrad]

Tony also said it will be titled Red Star.

[LikeaBurningMan]

Of all the songs that were affected by Arion's departure, this one had the most rock stripped from it.

I really hope this turns out like it deserves to in the studio.

[PUTthePASTaway]

Of all the songs that were affected by Arion's departure, this one had the most rock stripped from it.

I really hope this turns out like it deserves to in the studio.

Last we heard, the music for this song was recorded when Arion was still there and they are keeping it. SJ's vocals may have changed over time, but the "rock" as you put it should still be there.

[LikeaBurningMan]

ah true true
i forgot that it was one of the songs they are supposedly using previously recorded stuff for.

[Tastefordanger987]

Last we heard, the music for this song was recorded when Arion was still there and they are keeping it. SJ's vocals may have changed over time, but the "rock" as you put it should still be there.


Oh man I pray it stays the way Arion wanted it. That version was so kickass

[sst2]

Soo... basically the same? I'm hearing "You've come so far, don't back down now", but we had written other variants on the line in earlier boots.

---------------------------------------------
The police high-beams froze her perfect face
In white glow for a while
The politburo's on high alert
And her name showed up on file
There's trouble with the war effort
And she's been speaking out
Checkpoint Charlie's radioed in
She's compromised in doubt
There's trouble with the war effort and she's crossed the party line
You were so pretty the days you spoke your mind

You were so pretty, oh
You were so pretty, oh
Hiding out
And the files have been filled
The regime won't be undermined
And you were so pretty in the days you spoke your mind

Quiet now, don't make a sound
The system shut us down now
We find each other in the underground
She had the voice once of the people
Now she's timid as a mouse
I would kiss you on the mouth in a safe house

Because you were so pretty, oh
Hiding out, hiding out
You were so pretty, oh
Hiding out, hiding out
Walk on by
Hiding out, hiding out
Walk on by
She's a red star
She's a red star

(Guitar solo)

Tell me how did you let them in
We were silent secret agents
But the resistance is wearing thin
Dissent is now illegal
She must pay the consequence
In this thriller mystery baby,
You are my suspense

Because you were so pretty, yeah
Hiding out, hiding out
You were so pretty, oh
Hiding out, hiding out
Walk on by
Hiding out, hiding out
Walk on by
She's a red star
She's a red star
(You've come so far, don't back down now)
She's a red star
(You've come so far, don't back down now)
She's a red star
(You've come so far, don't back down now)
(You've come so far, don't back down now)
(You've come so far, don't back down now)

[jenk]

The guitars are too muted. The solo is too short and not nearly loud enough. Should be a rock song but isn't.

Reminds me of Blinded--a subtle rock undertone, but too drawn out and subtle. Pleasant, but not filled with loud, raw guitars and interesting effects (think S/T) like it should be.

[Lying Like Lions]

The guitars are too muted. The solo is too short and not nearly loud enough. Should be a rock song but isn't.

Reminds me of Blinded--a subtle rock undertone, but too drawn out and subtle. Pleasant, but not filled with loud, raw guitars and interesting effects (think S/T) like it should be.

Red Star would lose all of its meaning if it was turned into a louder rock song. The quietness of it's undertone fits appropriately with the lyrics allowing the song to truly have meaning.

“You were so pretty, oh
You were so pretty, oh
Hiding out
And the files have been filled
The regime won't be undermined
And you were so pretty in the days you spoke your mind

Quiet now, don't make a sound
The system shut us down now
We find each other in the underground”

[LightningXOO7]

Red Star would lose all of its meaning if it was turned into a louder rock song. The quietness of it's undertone fits appropriately with the lyrics allowing the song to truly have meaning.

“You were so pretty, oh
You were so pretty, oh
Hiding out
And the files have been filled
The regime won't be undermined
And you were so pretty in the days you spoke your mind

Quiet now, don't make a sound
The system shut us down now
We find each other in the underground”


It's called juxtaposition and it DID work very well actually if you go back and listen to the '05 live version of it. I'm sure there are a lot of cases (can't think of any off the top of my head though sorry) where crossing lyrics that have a softer feeling to it with music that gives it a big emotional backbone works. Or vice-versa.

[Transistor]

Or vice-versa.


persephone!

[Masachi]

Doesn't the whole drum/guitar burst right on "don't make a sound" already throw off the theory that the music is supposed to match the lyrical content?

[thirdeyeob]

huh?

[LightningXOO7]

Doesn't the whole drum/guitar burst right on "don't make a sound" already throw off the theory that the music is supposed to match the lyrical content?

Yes! Exactly. I remember people asking for the bass specifically to be brought up right after that part to sort of emphasize the lyrics in a way.

[jenk]

Yes! Exactly. I remember people asking for the bass specifically to be brought up right after that part to sort of emphasize the lyrics in a way.

Great point. Plus, I never said turn the song into "Anything." I am merely suggesting that the guitars can be turned up, sound more raw, and be featured much more prominently...especially during the solo.

[AglimpseoftheSun]

I hate the lyric I would kiss you on the mouth in a safe house! Ah! Horrible!


I would have preferred the old lyric "on the mouth and say love" DAMN, that was a good line in that song. Oh well....

[Matthew]

I hate the lyric I would kiss you on the mouth in a safe house! Ah! Horrible!


I would have preferred the old lyric "on the mouth and say love" DAMN, that was a good line in that song. Oh well....

this wasn't the old lyric...

it's always been "safe house..."

it was just misunderstood as "say love" when we first heard the bootlegs...

and i think it's a fantastic lyric that fits incredibly well with the theme of the song...

its one of the most powerful moments in "red star," if ya ask me...

:rock:

[Ian]

this wasn't the old lyric...

it's always been "safe house..."

it was just misunderstood as "say love" when we first heard the bootlegs...

and i think it's a fantastic lyric that fits incredibly well with the theme of the song...

its one of the most powerful moments in "red star," if ya ask me...

:rock:

i agree. i love this line. always have.

[Masachi]

I love that line too, but I think my absolute favourite HAS to be

"In this thriller mystery baby, you are my suspense"

SO good.

[allison]

I'm still a HUGE fan of "you were so pretty the days you spoke your mind".

[Loveless]

I love that line too, but I think my absolute favourite HAS to be

"In this thriller mystery baby, you are my suspense"

SO good.

I'm going to have to agree-my favorite lyric as well, although the entire song is solid and the safe house lyric is fitting...

[should_be_working]

This song is amazing. I got to say, i think my favorite part is the beginning when Tony starts playing right before sj starts singing - the riffs seem harder, and it takes you into the song so nicely - gives me chills

[Nutmeg Peach]

I love that line too, but I think my absolute favourite HAS to be

"In this thriller mystery baby, you are my suspense"

SO good.

I agree!

"Thriller mystery" is hands down my favorite line. I like "safe house," too. Both lines echo the theme of the song really well.

[3eBrad]

I think we all agree, Red Star is very myspace/tvcy signature quoteworthy. :thup:


my vote goes for "thriller mystery"

[DWally19]

Just listened to Red Star for the first time. Actually 3 times.

e. However, I do love the intense final singing and harmony of "You've come so far to back down now." If I could modify "So Pretty" in any way, the only thing I would do would be insert that line, intensely with Tony's amazing high harmony, at the end of the song in that exact same place, but leave the previous singings of it out. I do see why, Brian, you said that Stephan/co. made a colossal blunder in leaving that line out, because it is an amazing line for the song's message, but I think it would be best placed at the end for maximum emphasis/rock-out-age.

You really called it on the ending. Too bad it is not Tony's voice though... oh well, I love the end of this song.

[punchbag906]

"system shut us down now, we'll find each other in the underground"....amazing,,, this song is epic,,,one of my fav 3eb tracks,,,songs like this will make up for NDC or DBAW....which arent bad by any means just not the typical 3eb we are used too....im still in love with in the skin and second born and if they dont make the record or get released in any way i will be let down....not the first time though...

[SpenserG89]

I'm still a HUGE fan of "you were so pretty the days you spoke your mind".

I agree! This is probably my favorite line of the song.

As I'm sure most agree, this really is my favorite from the EP. I keep going back to it everytime! :)

[nj89]

Yeah I generally have my doubts about listening to tracks before they are released but even with the different solo and the slightly different ending I have to say I was blown away by the production on Red Star. It makes me fly.

The lyrics are amazing, proof that SJ still has his mojo. Even before I heard the song I read the lyrics and was completely blown away. It takes everything I've loved from books like "1984" and the film "The Lives of Others" and puts it through the 3eb grinder to make 4 minutes of bliss. One of my favourite 3eb songs, can't say it enough...

[sst2]

I love "quiet now, don't make a sound". Taken out of context, it's not an especially brilliant line, but the delivery is perfect.

[sweetnessinthedark]

I LOVE RED STAR!

so great. chicken soup for my faith in this band

[Ian]

red star (the song) is better than ursa major.

there, i said it.

i would rather listen to red star 11 times straight through than ursa major through once.

[sean...]

red star (the song) is better than ursa major.

there, i said it.

i would rather listen to red star 11 times straight through than ursa major through once.

agreed..with the exception of sharp knife

[LikeaBurningMan]

Do we know the story of the late-in-the-game changed guitar solo?

Haven't listened to 3eb in a long time, and cranked this song two times in the past few days. It's easily one of the best songs they've ever done.

I want to know why the solo was changed so late in the game.
I believe it was a positive change....
but other solo was played live for quite a while, and I have wondered a few times if it wasn't Tony's choice to change it...

[Steve Mac]

Do we know the story of the late-in-the-game changed guitar solo?

Haven't listened to 3eb in a long time, and cranked this song two times in the past few days. It's easily one of the best songs they've ever done.

I want to know why the solo was changed so late in the game.
I believe it was a positive change....
but other solo was played live for quite a while, and I have wondered a few times if it wasn't Tony's choice to change it...

Im sure Tony said that it wasnt actually a guitar that was played but some machine he used or he played the guitar through a machine to get that sound or something. No sure why it was changed though.

Tony still played the old solo live after the studio version too. Maybe because of the machine thing.

Ive always loved any version of Red Star, from 05 to Fillmore to final. Though i will say that on the final version there is way to much of the "echoey" second guitar and not enough of the "rock" one. If anyone remixed it for indaba like i did you'll know what i mean.

It is amazing live... Im glad i can now say that ;)

I always still refer to this version as "So Pretty" Im sure if this had of dropped on Major we'd of all gone mad on it. I have no idea why it was left off, esspecially now knowing that it was light on tracks anyway.

[LikeaBurningMan]

Im sure Tony said that it wasnt actually a guitar that was played but some machine he used or he played the guitar through a machine to get that sound or something. No sure why it was changed though.

Tony still played the old solo live after the studio version too. Maybe because of the machine thing.

Ive always loved any version of Red Star, from 05 to Fillmore to final. Though i will say that on the final version there is way to much of the "echoey" second guitar and not enough of the "rock" one. If anyone remixed it for indaba like i did you'll know what i mean.

It is amazing live... Im glad i can now say that ;)

I always still refer to this version as "So Pretty" Im sure if this had of dropped on Major we'd of all gone mad on it. I have no idea why it was left off, esspecially now knowing that it was light on tracks anyway.

No shit? The lead line in the final version isn't a guitar? (listens)
Man, that sounds A LOT like a guitar. I'm usually not easily fooled, but whoever programmed that if it isn't a guitar is a total baller. The bends are spot on and sounds just like a real guitar.
The original solo was classy, understated, but IMO not good enough to be on the final version of it. So I'm glad they changed it.
The first time I heard the new one I had chills all over.

I agree about the echo factor of the final recording. The bass tone is sick, but in conjunction with where the guitar is in the mix they get lost in each other if you aren't listening hard.
If you crank the piss out of the song it sounds awesome. If you listen with shitty speakers or not very loud it doesn't sound great.

I think it was left off UM for three reasons:
1) Credited to Arion
2) it's really not as instantly catchy/pop in the same way as many latter-day 3eb songs.
It's a rocker. And I think ever since Blue they've been 'afraid' of the rockers.
3) the way it was mixed (see above)

But those are just my opinions.

[Steve Mac]

From Stephan:


This is the last song I ever wrote with Arion. He remains in my estimation, one of my favorite bass players and all around musicians of all time. As of writing these notes, I haven’t heard from him in over a year, but I remain a friend and a fan.

Red Star is bass as lead line. The distortion and tape echo effect sound like secrets echoing off concrete. It gives me this East Berlin, circa 1950 vibe and I imagined Dick Cheney’s America as this kind of Stazi-like environment where opposition is not only unpatriotic, but will get you in big trouble. So it’s my own little resistance love story. I imagine a girl, in a black beret, driving at night through the fog on the steep, windy streets of San Francisco risking all in service of the cause!

We were flying to Japan the day we recorded the song and I wanted Brad to have a nervous energy when he played so I told him we were going to miss the flight. I kept yelling at him “hurry up, we have to go”. He played it in one take up in the chamber room. The atmospheric sound you hear is where I recorded the reverb of a piano ten times and then played it backwards. It’s a lot of work for that one tiny, little sound. Other than that, the song is pretty simple-not very many parts. The guitar is recorded through a High Watt and has that bright, brittle, Pete Townsend sound that I like.

Some lyrics are extremely difficult for me. This was an easy, fun story to write. I’m glad people enjoy Red Star. I hope a lot of people get to hear it, but I’m afraid that might not happen for this one. I’ll be curious to see if you guys request it for shows.

Oh yea, that’s a Pianette on the choruses- it’s a cute little keyboard.
Credits

* Stephan Jenkins: Author, vocals, Piano
* Brad Hargreaves: Drums
* Tony Fredianelli: Guitar
* John Evans: Bass
* Arion Salazar: Author


Nothing in there about the Guitar but i could swear blind that Tony said it was played on a machine or played through a computer or something, someone step in if they know.

Stephan even seems to think it wouldnt be a big song. Im glad that its pretty much universally loved by all 3eb fans (even after the changes) its a great track.

[should_be_working]

I love Red Star, in fact it might be my favorite out of the major sessions. I think one of the main reasons I love it is that the lryics remained basically unchanged (yes, yes the old red star chorus, but besides that) and there aren't any effects on stephan's vocals except for the echos. It seems like every song on major has vocal effects, and I just want to hear stephan's vocals, nothing more. There's no studio gimmicks with the song, it just sounds right. It sounds real unlike so many songs on major.

[Steve Mac]

I love Red Star, in fact it might be my favorite out of the major sessions. I think one of the main reasons I love it is that the lryics remained basically unchanged (yes, yes the old red star chorus, but besides that) and there aren't any effects on stephan's vocals except for the echos. It seems like every song on major has vocal effects, and I just want to hear stephan's vocals, nothing more. There's no studio gimmicks with the song, it just sounds right. It sounds real unlike so many songs on major.

This is what i though too. From hearing the unmastered tracks and Tony and Stephan telling us what equipment and Guitars they were using made it sound like it was going to have a really raw rock vibe to it, like something from the 70's, something with an edge and while it may of sounded like that in the studio, after it got done mixing & mastering, it had to much gloss on it.

If you listen to the DBAW guitar from Indaba and then from the album, its totally different even though its the same take. For me, theres no point in using expensive old equipment & guitars if youre going to tinker with them afterwards, or at least to the extent that they did on Ursa. It still sounds good, but its not the sound they were talking about achieving or the sound we all though they were going to give us.

Saying all that, i did listen to Ursa Major at work twice yesterday and its still an enjoyable record, i like it, its just afew sandwiches short of a picnic.

[Spiff2112]

Red Star has become one of my all time favorite 3eb songs.
I remember when I first heard it, it got me SOOO pumped for the upcoming album. It was like: "YES! If it sounds anything like this, it will be good!"
But... sadly we now know how that worked out.
Still... Great song!
:thup:

[ordinaryday6]

i think i remember tony saying something to the effect that stephan wanted a more melodic solo for it, rather than the more atmospheric one that he'd been playing.

[PUTthePASTaway]

i think i remember tony saying something to the effect that stephan wanted a more melodic solo for it, rather than the more atmospheric one that he'd been playing.

This is correct. Tony definitely said this to us at one point.

[Steve Mac]

What about the guitar? Can anyone remember that? Im 99.99% sure Tony said it was done on a computer or a machine...

[PUTthePASTaway]

What about the guitar? Can anyone remember that? Im 99.99% sure Tony said it was done on a computer or a machine...

I'm 0.01% sure you are wrong about that.





(In all seriousness, I don't remember)

[ordinaryday6]

i don't remember that at all..

you couldn't be thinking on now i don't know, could you? the demo guitar was created by arion and it wasn't a guitar.

but i don't remember anything about red star. i could have missed it, very easily though...

[LikeaBurningMan]

Red Star guitars sound very guitar to me, maybe Sam is right and you're thinking about the NIDK demo?

[Steve Mac]

Maybe... But im sure he said it about Red Star. Someone asked him about what guitar he used and he said it wasnt a guitar, deffo not talking about NIDK, he programed it on a computer or something? I swear im not making this up :lol:

[Knife In The Water]

Perhaps he just meant it in more of a figurative sense. Because the guitar does sound highly processed, like it was altered a lot in the studio...