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View Full Version : The sad part about today... (a non-partisan post)



LetsGoMountaineers
11-04-2008, 02:42 PM
This has bugged me for a long time and it's one of those things where you risk being "high and mighty" if you preach to your friends about it, but sometimes it's more important to take a stand than to save face. So, here I go...

I don't know if any of you have had the same experience I have, but almost all of my peers are going to vote today (which is great!). The problem is: a great deal of my peers cannot tell you the basic tenants of the Democratic or Republican parties, nor do they understand the differences between the parties.

When I ask someone "Why are you a Democrat?" or "Why are you a Republican?" I'm incredibly disheartened when they say, "Well... my parents told me to vote for X!" or "Well... Jimmy is and he's smart, so I am!"

Way to think for yourselves, people.

Now, I understand that each household has its own culture and that politically involved parents for either party can instill a sense of disdain in their children towards the other political party... but all it takes is a little bit of time and effort on the Internet in order to cast even a partially informed decision... a decision that is your own, not that of your parents.

The way I look at it, generations of men and women fought and died for our freedom to vote so that we could participate in a Democratic Republic. Sure, we have the freedom not to vote as well as the freedom to vote for Santa Clause if we'd like to... I just think that's incredibly irresponsible and disrespectful. In my opinion it says a lot about your character - or should I say lack of character - if you make such a decision.

So, I'm begging all of you today to set aside your pre-conceived notions, preferences, plans, and loyalties. Open up your mind and do a little bit of research so that you can say more than, "Well... I like McBama! Republicrats rule and I always vote Republicrat!"

Give me a reason why. Give me a policy description. Give me some substance. Give me something that affects you. Give me something that you're passionate about... don't just give me useless fodder like "Obama is such a great speaker!" or "McCain is decorated!"

Hitler was both, yet he rose to power with horrendous and hateful policies because people didn't think for themselves and take a stand. They just followed the useless masses.

So, please, today... I beg you... cast aside the fact that you've always voted Republican or Democrat and take a moment to look into both candidates' individual policies. Look into their beliefs. Look into their record. They differ wildly. Do you honestly know how they differ?

Make no mistake about it: both men want what's best for this country and want to lead it into an era of prosperity. They agree on the end result but differ on the means. They've both been painted into horrible corners and people have bought into both sides. However, McCain is not a war-hawk and Obama is not a terrorist. Neither are hell-bent on destruction.

Both men are remarkable and inspiring leaders with individual strengths and accomplishments as well as individual weaknesses and pitfalls... after today, one set of strengths and weaknesses will be leading this country and influencing the world... the good news is WE get to decide who it will be.

That's a pretty big responsibility and decision. Please take it seriously.

chago04
11-04-2008, 03:29 PM
This has bugged me for a long time and it's one of those things where you risk being "high and mighty" if you preach to your friends about it, but sometimes it's more important to take a stand than to save face. So, here I go...

I don't know if any of you have had the same experience I have, but almost all of my peers are going to vote today (which is great!). The problem is: a great deal of my peers cannot tell you the basic tenants of the Democratic or Republican parties, nor do they understand the differences between the parties.

When I ask someone "Why are you a Democrat?" or "Why are you a Republican?" I'm incredibly disheartened when they say, "Well... my parents told me to vote for X!" or "Well... Jimmy is and he's smart, so I am!"

Way to think for yourselves, people.

Now, I understand that each household has its own culture and that politically involved parents for either party can instill a sense of disdain in their children towards the other political party... but all it takes is a little bit of time and effort on the Internet in order to cast even a partially informed decision... a decision that is your own, not that of your parents.

The way I look at it, generations of men and women fought and died for our freedom to vote so that we could participate in a Democratic Republic. Sure, we have the freedom not to vote as well as the freedom to vote for Santa Clause if we'd like to... I just think that's incredibly irresponsible and disrespectful. In my opinion it says a lot about your character - or should I say lack of character - if you make such a decision.

So, I'm begging all of you today to set aside your pre-conceived notions, preferences, plans, and loyalties. Open up your mind and do a little bit of research so that you can say more than, "Well... I like McBama! Republicrats rule and I always vote Republicrat!"

Give me a reason why. Give me a policy description. Give me some substance. Give me something that affects you. Give me something that you're passionate about... don't just give me useless fodder like "Obama is such a great speaker!" or "McCain is decorated!"

Hitler was both, yet he rose to power with horrendous and hateful policies because people didn't think for themselves and take a stand. They just followed the useless masses.

So, please, today... I beg you... cast aside the fact that you've always voted Republican or Democrat and take a moment to look into both candidates' individual policies. Look into their beliefs. Look into their record. They differ wildly. Do you honestly know how they differ?

Make no mistake about it: both men want what's best for this country and want to lead it into an era of prosperity. They agree on the end result but differ on the means. They've both been painted into horrible corners and people have bought into both sides. However, McCain is not a war-hawk and Obama is not a terrorist. Neither are hell-bent on destruction.

Both men are remarkable and inspiring leaders with individual strengths and accomplishments as well as individual weaknesses and pitfalls... after today, one set of strengths and weaknesses will be leading this country and influencing the world... the good news is WE get to decide who it will be.

That's a pretty big responsibility and decision. Please take it seriously.

amen :thup:

Intoxicated Ricochet
11-04-2008, 04:00 PM
Word.

sst2
11-04-2008, 04:03 PM
Well, I was undecided up until this morning, when I discovered that my "Barack the Vote" shirt had been KIDNAPPED and TORTURED by the Basket of Dirty Laundry....


VAST RIGHT-WING CONSPIRACY??? YOU BETCHA!!!!

should_be_working
11-04-2008, 04:29 PM
Agreed, and well said. I really hope people will vote based on principal and policy, rather than popularity and family/friends connection.

Oh and since i voted a few days early, i didn't get an "i voted" sticker. So i thought i'm make some not so serious ones on my own. I think they are somewhat funny:

LeftEyeBlind
11-04-2008, 04:48 PM
Worrddddd, my friend wants Obama to win because theres never been a black president before, luckily he can't vote, or that would be the only reason he would cast a ballot for Obama.

I'm always watching CNN, I think I'm on top of it.

McCain = Maverick, 7 houses.
Obama = Pals around with terrorists, terrorist fist bump.

Kidddinggg. I voted based on the issues.

lovemachine97
11-04-2008, 05:35 PM
It was disheartening to hear a radio bit where a guy went up to Obama supporters, and asked them if they were in favor of him staying in as long as it took to get the war in Iraq done. They all said they were with him on that. They were then asked, if by voting for him, they were okay with his selection of Sarah Palin as his VP, and they all said yes...

Not to mention the people voting for McCain purely because Obama is black...

Goes to show ya some of the people voting...

LetsGoMountaineers
11-04-2008, 05:38 PM
It was disheartening to hear a radio bit where a guy went up to Obama supporters, and asked them if they were in favor of him staying in as long as it took to get the war in Iraq done. They all said they were with him on that. They were then asked, if by voting for him, they were okay with his selection of Sarah Palin as his VP, and they all said yes...

Not to mention the people voting for McCain purely because Obama is black...

Goes to show ya some of the people voting...

Correct. This is the type of stuff I'm talking about. Regarding the black thing, I'd speculate that he'll receive just as many votes if not more because he IS black. We'll see if the African American turnout is as big as predicted.

crimson~melody
11-04-2008, 05:47 PM
This election has been difficult for me because while i can know and understand each candidate's stance on issues, i don't have any previous education on the issues themselves. meaning, candidates can spout off on war and the economy and health care, but in order for me to understand, they'd have to explain everything in very plain English. It was way too much for me to try to learn in the short period of time since the candidates were chosen, but up until then, I had no motivation to look into the issues. Politics and government have always been way over my head.
The best I was able to do was watch the debates, read what you guys have to say and talk to friends who were willing to provide me with facts and not just nudge me and say "c'mon vote for so-and-so."
But I have the right to vote. And I still am eager to. So I'm going to, even if I'm not the most educated person on the subject.

Will
11-04-2008, 05:48 PM
Not to mention the people voting for McCain purely because Obama is black...


Or the people voting for Obama purely because Obama is black...

tfg
11-04-2008, 05:59 PM
It was disheartening to hear a radio bit where a guy went up to Obama supporters, and asked them if they were in favor of him staying in as long as it took to get the war in Iraq done. They all said they were with him on that. They were then asked, if by voting for him, they were okay with his selection of Sarah Palin as his VP, and they all said yes...

Not to mention the people voting for McCain purely because Obama is black...

Goes to show ya some of the people voting...

Like that woman at the McCain rally and the 1 out of 4 people in Texas that still think Obama is a Muslim. You could go on and on.

“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.” -Winston Churchill

chago04
11-04-2008, 06:31 PM
“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.” -Winston Churchill

and the average voter is going for obama..... haha, you got pwned!

jacobvandy
11-04-2008, 06:39 PM
what kind of dumb statement is that? there are just as many hillbillies convinced he's a spy.

tfg
11-04-2008, 06:44 PM
and the average voter is going for obama..... haha, you got pwned!

It applies to the entire electorate. I think in this case, this is too obvious a vote, even for the average voter.

tfg
11-04-2008, 06:53 PM
By the way, why am I getting negative reps from someone who's not even involved in this conversation and said that they were done with the political talk?

LetsGoMountaineers
11-04-2008, 06:58 PM
By the way, why am I getting negative reps from someone who's not even involved in this conversation and said that they were done with the political talk?

HAHAHAHA

that just caused me to laugh out loud at work, which got me in trouble

lighter_boots
11-04-2008, 06:58 PM
I've stopped by after two weeks and, wow:sigh:...........

PA will be won by McCain, McCain is our 44th President.

LeftEyeBlind
11-04-2008, 07:06 PM
False hope is better than no hope.

Axis on a Tilt
11-04-2008, 07:39 PM
PA will be won by McCain, McCain is our 44th President.

Quoted for later reflection.

;)

lovemachine97
11-04-2008, 07:55 PM
How about the race thing becoming an issue, and the involvement of Black Panther members blocking doors, swinging night sticks at at least one polling place...

http://www.youtube.com/v/Rm9A0r5Otdk&hl=en&fs=1

I'm not voting for either major candidate, but don't these people realize they are adding to the divisiveness of this country by these tactics?

lighter_boots
11-04-2008, 07:57 PM
How about the race thing becoming an issue, and the involvement of Black Panther members blocking doors, swinging night sticks at at least one polling place...


http://www.youtube.com/v/Rm9A0r5Otdk&hl=en&fs=1

here's the video evidence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGbKHyGuHU

LetsGoMountaineers
11-04-2008, 08:07 PM
Wow. WTF.

lighter_boots
11-04-2008, 08:21 PM
Johnny Law to the rescue!

http://www.breitbart.tv/html/213313.html

Intoxicated Ricochet
11-04-2008, 08:24 PM
OH MY GOD, THAT IS SUCH BLATANT RACE-BAITING OF AN EXTREMELY ISOLATED INCIDENT.

Why can you people not see through this shallow, last-minute, ultimately futile attempt by FOX News to try and scare people?

should_be_working
11-04-2008, 08:27 PM
^^ sarcasm?

crimson~melody
11-04-2008, 08:28 PM
i'm so glad that, as a moderate with a brain, i don't buy into everything bad the media says about the opposing party.

Intoxicated Ricochet
11-04-2008, 08:34 PM
^^ sarcasm?

Fuck no, it's not sarcasm. The Black Panthers are a dead, irrelevant entity in the grand scheme of American politics. This is just another isolated voter intimidation incident that was dealt with pretty quickly and effectively by law enforcement. FOX is blowing it out of proportion and baiting people, but I'd say it's pointless at this stage.

lighter_boots
11-04-2008, 08:35 PM
OH MY GOD, THAT IS SUCH BLATANT RACE-BAITING OF AN EXTREMELY ISOLATED INCIDENT.

Why can you people not see through this shallow, last-minute, ultimately futile attempt by FOX News to try and scare people?

blindness.

shoe on the other foot it'd be "RACIST!" "THAT'S WHAT REPUBLICAN'S DO"!

can't have it both ways, as much as you'll try.

it's voter intimidation. therefore, against the law and the police removed them.

Intoxicated Ricochet
11-04-2008, 08:40 PM
Did I mention anything about Republicans? I condemned Fox News's race-baiting.

LetsGoMountaineers
11-04-2008, 09:03 PM
This isn't another argument thread.

Punkadelica
11-04-2008, 09:19 PM
:wet:

I just saw the Black Panthers thing on Fox. Hilarious, although I seriously hope that it didn't discourage anyone from voting. I heard them say that the guys ended up leaving on their own and the police determined no laws had been broken, but who knows.

Anyway, back on topic, to quote George Carlin, “think of how stupid the average person is and realize half of them are stupider then that."

America has a grossly uninformed electorate, and it's kind of scary to think that there are millions of other people out there whose votes count just as much as yours (or more if they live in a swing state). But, even so, that's democracy and that's about the best you can get. I hope that anyone who votes tries to become as informed as possible on the issues, but it's hard for me to condemn anyone who's willing to become part of the democratic process by voting because I think they're less informed than me. I know there are lots of other voters out there who know the issues much, much better than myself, but that doesn't stop me from making a decision and casting my vote.

The best thing you can do is to try to share your knowledge and opinions with others in a healthy discussion, and be receptive of the same, even from people with opposing viewpoints.

tfg
11-04-2008, 09:24 PM
Fuck no, it's not sarcasm. The Black Panthers are a dead, irrelevant entity in the grand scheme of American politics. This is just another isolated voter intimidation incident that was dealt with pretty quickly and effectively by law enforcement. FOX is blowing it out of proportion and baiting people, but I'd say it's pointless at this stage.

Haha don't you just love Fixed News. I love their "Breaking News" stories about Obama, the last two of which have been from January and April of this year.

Hooby
11-04-2008, 09:33 PM
Despite a grossly undereducated voter base, I will say this. I've voted in, now, 3 Presidential elections, and as far as how informed people are, this has been enormously better than the previous two.

Even in 2004, only 40% of the nation had broadband, and blogs (as well as youtube) didn't even exist back then, or at the very least, weren't nearly as cohesive as they are now. There's so much more information readily available now, as well as ways to check that information's legitimacy.

I know it's fair to say that a good portion of America doesn't utilize these tools, but as opposed to past elections, I'd say that our nation has steadily grown MORE informed over the last 8 years rather than the opposite.

Mitch
11-04-2008, 09:43 PM
i'm of the opinion that if you don't know what you're voting for, don't vote.

for example, i voted for president and for a couple of local initiatives, but that's it/ i didn't follow the senate/HOR/local elections enough to feel comfortable voting for any of the candidates.

sst2
11-05-2008, 01:25 AM
Now that I'm at the age when I can vote, I feel it's my civic duty to be informed on the issues/candidates. I didn't do my research for a ton of the judges and school district people, so I didn't vote and I'm feeling rather guilty.

But in other news, AZ's propositions SUCKED this year. :spaz:

Intoxicated Ricochet
11-05-2008, 02:19 AM
Thanks for the neg rep Chago! Hope there's enough room in your lifeboat as your political ship is sinking.

Maybe
11-05-2008, 02:39 AM
if there's one thing I learned today, it's that Nina Easton is one hot conservative milf.

chago04
11-05-2008, 06:49 AM
Thanks for the neg rep Chago! Hope there's enough room in your lifeboat as your political ship is sinking.

i thought your post was a political hackrag, so i gave you negative rep, if you want to pull this out into the open, you will see that i didnt do it because i disagreed with your opinion, i just think, based on that one post, you came off as a partisan shitbag. and partisan politics is the thing that is wrong with our country.

edit: and i think its funny that once i give you a negative rep, you find a post of mine from almost a month ago to give me negative rep. get over yourself, its a damn website, i dont give a shit about rep.

elle
11-05-2008, 07:05 AM
PA will be won by McCain, McCain is our 44th President.

Mmmm, how do those words taste? ;)

Look, McCain put up a really good fight. I presumed nothing until polls closed in CA and Obama was put over the edge. I understand that McCain had little control over some of the people in his campaign, over his supporters, and many of the racial and accusatory statements put forth by those people may not be shared by McCain. I trust that he is a fine man. Now, his running mate choice, that's another matter, but I think he could have taken these times and this election a little more seriously when it came to choosing his running mate. Anywho, I thought his concession speech was great, and I hope Obama recognizes him as a asset to his presidency.

chago04
11-05-2008, 07:08 AM
Anywho, I thought his concession speech was great, and I hope Obama recognizes him as a asset to his presidency.

it was a truly classy speech. i think it would be awesome of obama to find a place for him in his presidency, that would truly show his character, and would go a long way towards bipartisanship.

LetsGoMountaineers
11-05-2008, 01:37 PM
it was a truly classy speech. i think it would be awesome of obama to find a place for him in his presidency, that would truly show his character, and would go a long way towards bipartisanship.

I hope so as well... I really do.

I honestly respect John McCain a great deal and have followed him since 1999. It was an honor for me to vote for him and I was choked up last night during his speech, especially when he said, "The failure was not yours... it was mine." That's classic McCain.

That being said, I'm now ready to get behind Obama full-force. Let's see this country kick some ass!

sst2
11-05-2008, 07:06 PM
I hope so as well... I really do.

I honestly respect John McCain a great deal and have followed him since 1999. It was an honor for me to vote for him and I was choked up last night during his speech, especially when he said, "The failure was not yours... it was mine." That's classic McCain.

That being said, I'm now ready to get behind Obama full-force. Let's see this country kick some ass!

:thup: :thup: I hope Obama includes McCain in his administration as well, as long as they can work well together. I was choked up during McCain's speech, too. Even though I've disagreed with him over the course of the campaign, he's been my senator for my entire life.... and I do believe that he's a good man.

But with the outcome of this election, I'll shift from being a proponent of Obama to being his critic, because I feel that that's our civic duty. Congratulations to both candidates on a hard-fought race, and like you said, let's see this country kick some ass! :)

Matthew
11-05-2008, 10:32 PM
I hope so as well... I really do.

I honestly respect John McCain a great deal and have followed him since 1999. It was an honor for me to vote for him and I was choked up last night during his speech, especially when he said, "The failure was not yours... it was mine." That's classic McCain.

That being said, I'm now ready to get behind Obama full-force. Let's see this country kick some ass!

that was an incredibly powerful moment. it might have been the greatest moment of strength for john mccain in this entire campaign. and it has nothing to do with grace or tact. it has everything to do with responsibility. john mccain has always served his country. he's always risen to accept what he believed was his responsibility to his country, and it says a lot about who he actually is (not always who we saw during the campaign) to hear him so humbly admit that the failures were his own (which is only partly true)...

in reality, this was just an impossible time to have an "R" next to your name on any ballot if you weren't an incumbent candidate. credit goes almost exclusively to the poor performance of president bush and his administration. while many managed to hold their seats, other incumbent congressional republicans were losing for no other reason then the fact that they were republicans. president bush's negative impact on this race changes a lot of things for republican party strategy, and john mccain's concession speech was evidence of something greater in him than his party can contain. it's a shame that his second bid for the presidency had to come at a time when the republican party is in such identity crisis, because it forced him to be less than the man that he is, and the man that he actually is can run this country. the republican party, however, needs to regroup and move back towards the center before americans will trust them with their country again. the unfortunate truth, though, is that john mccain is the strongest candidate for that shift back to the center, and the republicans of the last eight years fucked up by dragging him down with their divisive "with us or against us" kind of politics...

the tragedy of this campaign, to me, was seeing john mccain warped by the shock jocks and the crazies. people like rush limbaugh, bill o'reilly, ann coulter, and sean hannity don't really care about middle-america, they just collect their million-dollar checks and shout really loud. but that shouting does effect people, and it forced senator mccain into a really impossible situation of having to sacrifice his centrist tendencies for fear of losing the support of conservative party leaders. the far-right pandering definitely wasn't john mccain's goal in running for president, but the republican party unfairly backed him into a corner with all of the "vote for hillary" talk before the general election. it was disgraceful for conservatives to throw john mccain under the bus just as he was becoming the new face of the party. the sarah palin fiasco was likely a pressure-move, as well. she wasn't a john mccain pick. chuck hagel was the pick, if you ask me. that would have been the stronger, centrist ticket...

however, despite all of this, i feel like john mccain's concession speech was a personal victory for him. in his final moment of this [outrageously long] campaign, i think he managed to reclaim his identity as a politician and american hero, and i don't think any of the pundits, journalists, bloggers, or hacks can take that away from him...

here's a big booyah to democracy! :) :thup:

lighter_boots
11-19-2008, 12:52 AM
http://www.breitbart.tv/html/223033.html

:cheeky:

Intoxicated Ricochet
11-19-2008, 01:06 AM
You don't give up, do you?
http://gawker.com/5092156/obama-won-because-youre-stupid

From Gawker:


The fun thing about George Bush was that he was stupid, so very stupid, and so we could all complain all the time about how stupid all the people who voted for him were. Americans are fat, lazy morons who watch Two-and-a-Half Men. But now? Now 53% of voters chose our guy! So it would sure be dumb for the Republicans who spent eight years complaining about how liberal elitists have no respect for the gut wisdom and heartland values of Real Americans to now accuse the majority of people who voted for Barack Obama of being complete idiots, right? Not so much, if you're former talk show host John Ziegler! He has a fun new website about how Obama voters can't "correctly" answer loaded, misleading trivia questions about the candidates, which proves that they're stupid, and he has some data from pollster John Zogby to back him up!

The site is called "How Obama Won," and it will surely be the "Fuck the South" of the YouTube Generation, except that "Fuck the South" was at least funny, and this is just dumb. Ziegler "randomly selected" 12 Obama voters and proved conclusively that they are all dumb idiots because they didn't know various Republican talking points but they did have vague recollection of bad things said about Republicans. Media bias!

Anyways! Shock: voters are not terribly well-informed! You know, the American Electorate didn't suddenly become way smarter or dumber between 2004 and 2008. (The serious dumbening happened a generation or two ago BUT WE DIGRESS.) But maybe this time around, with everything having sucked for eight years and things only getting worse every day, the priorities of the silent moronity shifted. Maybe everyone decided to pick a dude who seemed smart, instead of the dude who just seemed less annoying. Or maybe the Democrats finally nominated the dude who seems less annoying! Which is, like, sorry, suckers—it worked for you for 28 years, now it's our turn.

lighter_boots
11-19-2008, 01:26 AM
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/obama_win_causes_obsessive?utm_source=embedded_vid eo

:lol::lol:

sst2
11-19-2008, 01:54 AM
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/obama_win_causes_obsessive?utm_source=embedded_vid eo

:lol::lol:

Stop mocking my pain!


STOP ARGUING!!!!

MY LIFE IS IN SHAMBLES.

Seriously, this is me: Obama Win Causes Obsessive Supporters To Realize How Empty Their Lives Are (http://www.theonion.com/content/video/obama_win_causes_obsessive)

lighter_boots
11-19-2008, 06:50 AM
You don't give up, do you?
http://gawker.com/5092156/obama-won-because-youre-stupid

From Gawker:


so so wrong and left-wing biased.

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.cfm?ID=1641

Zogby Statement on Ziegler poll


"We stand by the results our survey work on behalf of John Ziegler, as we stand by all of our work. We reject the notion that this was a push poll because it very simply wasn't. It was a legitimate effort to test the knowledge of voters who cast ballots for Barack Obama in the Nov. 4 election. Push polls are a malicious effort to sway public opinion one way or the other, while message and knowledge testing is quite another effort of public opinion research that is legitimate inquiry and has value in the public square. In this case, the respondents were given a full range of responses and were not pressured or influenced to respond in one way or another. This poll was not designed to hurt anyone, which is obvious as it was conducted after the election. The client is free to draw his own conclusions about the research, as are bloggers and other members of society. But Zogby International is a neutral party in this matter. We were hired to test public opinion on a particular subject and with no ax to grind, that's exactly what we did. We don't have to agree or disagree with the questions, we simply ask them and provide the client with a fair and accurate set of data reflecting public opinion." - John Zogby

Just 2% of voters who supported Barack Obama on Election Day obtained perfect or near-perfect scores on a post election test which gauged their knowledge of statements and scandals associated with the presidential tickets during the campaign, a new Zogby International telephone poll shows.





http://www.3eb.co.uk/easyaction/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://www.3eb.co.uk/easyaction/buttons/reputation.gif (http://www.3eb.co.uk/reputation.php?p=183991) vbrep_register("183991") http://www.3eb.co.uk/easyaction/buttons/report.gif (http://www.3eb.co.uk/report.php?p=183991) http://www.3eb.co.uk/easyaction/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.3eb.co.uk/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=183991)

lighter_boots
11-19-2008, 06:52 AM
Stop mocking my pain!


oops!:spaz:

Petria
11-19-2008, 04:28 PM
oops!:spaz:

I dont understand what the hell the point is of you posting these articles trying to show that Obama's voters are uninformed?! What's the point, really? Obama is the President-elect. He's not my choice, and I understand that he isn't yours, either. But maybe all of us can take a page out of McCain's book, be graceful about it, and shift our support towards Obama and our country. After all, wasn't that McCain's tag line ....'Country First'? I understand that debate, discussion, and discourse (yea alliteration!) are a part of that country first ideal, but can we please show some frickin support? I'm tired of the mud slinging and the bullshit. To try and call out Obama voters on being uneducated is stupid, because there are those that are uneducated on both sides. Where's the people asking McCain's supporters questions? I think you'd be surprised at the racism and bigotry that you might find there. (Just an assumption based onsome comments that I've overheard recently from a few McCain supporters in my office).

Either way, the election is over. It's decided, Obama clearly won. How about we turn our attention to trying to fix the deep shit our country is in instead of calling 53% of the population uneducated? Just a thought.

lighter_boots
11-23-2008, 08:20 PM
I dont understand what the hell the point is of you posting these articles trying to show that Obama's voters are uninformed?! What's the point, really? Obama is the President-elect. He's not my choice, and I understand that he isn't yours, either. But maybe all of us can take a page out of McCain's book, be graceful about it, and shift our support towards Obama and our country. After all, wasn't that McCain's tag line ....'Country First'? I understand that debate, discussion, and discourse (yea alliteration!) are a part of that country first ideal, but can we please show some frickin support? I'm tired of the mud slinging and the bullshit. To try and call out Obama voters on being uneducated is stupid, because there are those that are uneducated on both sides. Where's the people asking McCain's supporters questions? I think you'd be surprised at the racism and bigotry that you might find there. (Just an assumption based on some comments that I've overheard recently from a few McCain supporters in my office).

Either way, the election is over. It's decided, Obama clearly won. How about we turn our attention to trying to fix the deep shit our country is in instead of calling 53% of the population uneducated? Just a thought.

You sort of stole the thunder I felt after my first glance at your post. I pretty much concur with you.

Yeah, that type of video and poll can be made for any candidate on any election. Michael Moore has made himself rich using far more editing and half-truths. But the truth remains, most people who vote are woefully unaware of what/who they are voting for. Look no further than the campaign commercials as to what campaigns expect to influence average voters. Why do you think that there are so many legacies at all levels of politics? Yep, familiar last name.

In my perfect world campaigns wouldn't cost a Millions-a Billion $'s. Politicians would campaign in person and voters would make the effort to educate themselves.

All politicians are personable and likable at some level. Even cold fish such as Bob Dole and Hillary Clinton (I'm told) come across as genuine and caring in person. Since the advent of the TV age (we all learned about the Nixon-Kennedy debates in grade school) we have pretty much elected the more likable candidate for President as they appear on TV. I'd argue that Obama is more likable than McCain, Bush more so than either Gore or Kerry, Clinton over Dole or G.H.W. Bush, Bush #41 over Dukakis (only because Dukakis was a goof, Bush is very warm and personable, yet a cold campaigner on TV), Reagan over Mondale and Carter (who was too damaged to be likable in 1980), Carter over Ford (Carter a complete unknown yet everyone liked his smile)..............

The average voter is about as informed as my good friends' teenage daughter who chose to support Obama. As a 13 year old girl, she can't debate policy, or discuss the reasons why she is making this decision (of course she can't vote). But it's how she feels and how the feelings she has received about the candidate Obama have influenced her (well, her Mom too, but I don't think that was the strongest influence). Yes, yes, there are average voters of both parties who can be described this way.

2% of the population voted differently than it did in 2004. We have a different party in control because of that. I believe that this type of poll can easily be replicated on any issue. That's why "man on the street" interviews are such a common comic staple.